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Redhead1966 private msg quote post Address this user
I get a kick out of the fact that "Wake Up Little Susie" was banned in Boston due to the innocent content of two teens falling asleep at a movie. But no one said a word about "Down in the Willow Garden", which has some of the most gruesome lyrics about a boy poisoning and stabbing his girlfriend and tossing her in the river for no apparent reason. Then the guy gets hung for it.

I lived for a number of years in Switzerland and they used to tell me that people in the USA are more comfortable with violence as opposed to sex, and this proves them right.

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cuddles private msg quote post Address this user
hi redhead1966 there is no law these days you can do what you like and get away with it getting bail that bloke how kick the police in the head and got bale what a joke
peter
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Jeanroberts private msg quote post Address this user
Redhead1966. Yes, I well understand what you mean! I suppose it's to do with those folk songs being a few centuries old, it goes with the times. It was the people's way of spreading the news throughout the land they lived in. Rose Connelly is an Irish name, people leaving Ireland to live in the south of America must have brought the songs over with them and they carried on being sung! It certainly is a horror story! I don't think I'd heard a song quite so graphic before 'Songs Our Daddy Taught Us' They were gruesome times and as you say, no explained reason for the deed! xxx
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RicardoAPriori private msg quote post Address this user
You're all gonna love this:



More on this song later...

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ChrisW private msg quote post Address this user
I always enjoy watching this clip Ricardo, not just because of the singing, but to see those Irish pipes being played and all the guitars in a line at the back. There is always more in a video than at first glance.

Not watched it for several months so thanks for bringing it up again.
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Jane43 private msg quote post Address this user
Yes Down In The Willow Garden is a very gruesome song which reflects the tough times for many people when it was written, no welfare handouts or benefits and if you were born into a poor family life was tough. Taking refuge from life’s problems through alcohol was common and violence often followed. Goodnight Irene is another old song with grim lyrics, so is In The Pines.

Wake Up Little Susie is definitely a song of my era, I was born in 1943, when ‘respectable’ girls were expected to find a husband with good prospects at a very early age and on no account did you ‘Get into trouble’, i.e. get pregnant before marriage. If you did you ‘Had to get married’. If you stayed out late with a boy, even for the most innocent of reasons, your parents thought the worst. It was all about being a good girl and not bringing shame on the family. Wake Up Little Susie sums up this era perfectly.
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Jane43 private msg quote post Address this user
I believe The video Ricardo posted is from a BBC tv series about folk music ‘Bringing It All Back Home’.
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Jane43 private msg quote post Address this user
The lyrics of Knoxville Girl by The Louvin Brothers are disturbing too:

I met a liitle girl in Knoxville, a town we all know well
And every Sunday evening, out in her home, I'd dwell
We went to take an evening walk about a mile from town
I picked a stick up off the ground and knocked that fair girl down
She fell down on her bended knees, for mercy she did cry
"Oh Willy dear, don't kill me here, I'm unprepared to die"
She never spoke another word, I only beat her more
Until the ground around me within her blood did flow
I took her by her golden curls and I drug her round and around
Throwing her into the river that flows through Knoxville town
Go down, go down, you Knoxville girl with the dark and rolling eyes
Go down, go down, you Knoxville girl, you can never be my bride
I started back to Knoxville, got there about midnight
My mother, she was worried and woke up in a fright
Saying "dear son, what have you done to bloody your clothes so?"
I told my anxious mother I was bleeding at my nose
I called for me a candle to light myself to bed
I called for me a handkerchief to bind my aching head
Rolled and tumbled the whole night through, as troubles was for me
Like flames of hell around my bed and in my eyes could see
They carried me down to Knoxville and put me in a cell
My friends all tried to get me out but none could go my bail
I'm here to waste my life away down in this dirty old jail
Because I murdered that Knoxville girl, the girl I loved so well
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Jeanroberts private msg quote post Address this user
My goodness Jane! Since these songs were about courting couples! I'm wondering if the girl had just confessed to being 'with child' to use an old expression? It obviously didn't go down very well it would then seem! xxx
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RicardoAPriori private msg quote post Address this user
Straight from Everlypedia [as usual, thanx & kudos to Robin Dunn & Chrissie van Varik]:

click here for August 1917 [latest update]

click here for root directory

click here for 'Sackful of Country, Folk, Soul & Blues'

“It was first recorded in 1927 by Grayson and Whittler. When Charlie Monroe (older brother of Bill Monroe; [...]) recorded it in March of 1947, he changed the title to ‘Down In The Willow Garden’ and took the credit. It was first collected, as ‘Rose Connolly’, by folk song collector Edward Bunting (1773-1843) in Coleraine, Co. Derry in the northern part of Ireland.

[...] Burgaloo (identified as a variant of virgelieu) wine was a type of pear wine only made in central Virginia in the late 1700s into the early 1800s. Later ‘burgundy wine’ was substituted in the lyrics. However, another theory says the reference to burgundy wine is thought to be a corruption of burglar’s (or burgalar’s) wine, a spiked drink given by Irish highwaymen to victims before being robbed. It is also said that crooked innkeepers doped wine served to travellers making it easier to steal their valuables when asleep. Art Garfunkel, Bill Monroe and Nick Cave all recorded a version. Whatever the origins, it makes more sense that Rose was doped or subdued rather than poisoned to make sure that she did not resist when stabbed.”







Haven’t found it on the web, but in one of the outtakes in the Cadence Sessions 2 CD, they goof and go crazy with laughter imitating a hillbilly accent and saying something like “In those days, the best way to get rid of a girl you got pregnant was by murdering her! ―Yeah, he actually murdered her twice!”

Will get you the exact quote as soon as I find some free time [sorry for not uploading directly from my CD, but if I start doing that, there will be absolutely no way that I get a single thing done... ], so if you’re able to listen to he CD, please enjoy!

Yes Chris, love the sound of those Uilleann pipes too!

Ditto Redhead, Jane & Jean, we've come a long way from that way of getting rid of the "problem" as well as of the times you could lose your reputation and get grounded for falling asleep at the movie house or drive in movies...

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Redhead1966 private msg quote post Address this user
Another observation totally unconnected from this: Don has a much stronger accent than Phil. I can always hear the Kentucky in Don's speaking and singing voice but not in Phil's. It's interesting how people can be in the same family and be so different.

In my own family if you didn't know better you'd think my siblings and I had never even met much less been raised in the same household together.
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RicardoAPriori private msg quote post Address this user
Love how that "twang" shows up in their singing!
Where're you from Redhead?
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Redhead1966 private msg quote post Address this user
Ricardo -

I am from Minnesota and went to college in New Orleans. Down south they called me 'Yankee Gal' and when I went home for vacation they called me 'Southern Belle.'

Also, my friends not from Minnesota are confused as to why I don't sound like the characters from the movie "Fargo." Only the much older generation of Minnesotans sound like that because the original settlers in Minnesota were from the Scandinavian countries. That accent was how they spoke English with their Scandinavian roots. But now we are a melting pot from all over the world and no longer have that Fargo-ish accent.

For the record I find Don's voice sexy as can be. I also find Phil sexy That Everly DNA makes for some very attractive people through the generations.
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Jeanroberts private msg quote post Address this user
Excellent research and article Ricardo! Found it hugely interesting! I'd come to the conclusion a pregnant girl was what caused the murders in these songs back when folk had little or no money!
The explanations about the wine is all well worth knowing too!
Many thank yous! xxx
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RicardoAPriori private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhead1966
Ricardo -

I am from Minnesota and went to college in New Orleans. Down south they called me 'Yankee Gal' and when I went home for vacation they called me 'Southern Belle.'

Also, my friends not from Minnesota are confused as to why I don't sound like the characters from the movie "Fargo." Only the much older generation of Minnesotans sound like that because the original settlers in Minnesota were from the Scandinavian countries. That accent was how they spoke English with their Scandinavian roots. But now we are a melting pot from all over the world and no longer have that Fargo-ish accent.

For the record I find Don's voice sexy as can be. I also find Phil sexy That Everly DNA makes for some very attractive people through the generations.


Redhead,

When you take English teaching courses, they tell you the typical Midwestern accent is the "neutral" accent in American English. But I have to sort of imagine a mix between Minnesota and New Orleans.

Some native English teachers have asked me where I'm from [meaning California or Arizona, not Mexico or say Colombia], guess it has to do with my dad having lived until he finished high school in LA and my attending the American School here in Mexico.

I can perfectly understand all of you ladies being so attracted to the EBs and have always given the multiple talents of Emmy Lou Harris as an example of an equivalent in a very musical, sensitive and beautiful lady [who, in addition to all that, has aged in such an elegant, dignified way]...

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Redhead1966 private msg quote post Address this user
Ricardo -

I studied TV and movie production in New Orleans and found that when someone was being groomed to take over a news anchor position on national TV they send them to Minnesota to study the accent, or lack of one. Yes, we are considered the vanilla of accents now.

Funny, I have been all over the world, lived in Switzerland and even married (and divorced) a foreigner but the only time I picked up an accent was when I lived in New Orleans. Even now if I talk to a friend from there on the phone it takes me about an hour after I hang up to lose the accent again as I pick it up by talking to them.

I agree about Emmy Lou Harris - she's a beauty!
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Redhead1966 private msg quote post Address this user
Jeanroberts -

That also explains why in the lyric they say 'My father said that money would set me free if I would hurt that dear little girl whose name was Rose Connelly.'

Yet, no outcry from the concerned parents about that, but a huge meltdown about falling asleep in the movies, LOL!
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Joyb private msg quote post Address this user
Thank you for posting Rose Connolly Ricardo. Absolutely beautiful xx❤️❤️
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RicardoAPriori private msg quote post Address this user
Just discovered this, which I think is a very good interpretation of the original Irish style folk:



talk about gruesome and dark humor, just try Googling the group's former name + "live"...

click here to go to group's "about" page

PS

to Jane & Jean,
yes ma'am, bless the BBC!

to Redhead,
Would love to hear a native speaker from Minnesota pronounce "New Orleans" [allegedly one of the American English words with the largest number of legit pronunciations]... then just remembering our folk-rock Nobel laureate was also born & raised there and thinking of his pronunciation... ha ha!

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Redhead1966 private msg quote post Address this user
Ricardo -

I refer to him as 'Mumbles Zimmerman!"

By the way - have you found the outtakes of them messing up the lyrics and laughing yet? I can't find it online.
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Jeanroberts private msg quote post Address this user
Ricardo, I've just listened to Lynches 'Willow Gardens'. The name Rose Connolly in their version sounds like Annaleen or Annally! Have you noticed? Thank you for the video, finding this very interesting! I thought there was an extra piece at the end of the song I hadn't heard of the Everly version! Will have a listen to the Everly version again in case I'm suffering brain wipe out! xxx
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RicardoAPriori private msg quote post Address this user
Joy,
I think I even like it better than the record!

Redhead,
Sorry, my desk is still a mess [from writing an orchestral arrangement in those huge sheets four times letter size], but as soon as I can clean it up I'm sure the Cadence Sessions 2 will be there and I'll upload the comment made after one of the [Numbers 8 to 14] outtakes.

Jean,
Yes, so many variations in those old folk songs.

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RicardoAPriori private msg quote post Address this user
Of course The Smithsonian archives are maybe the best source for these old folk song field recordings [maybe closer to what the EBs listened to in Muhlenberg County]:

clic here for Smithsonian "Down in the Willow Garden" page

A couple of examples:





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Roxy private msg quote post Address this user
Ricardo, the Lynched version of Willow garden... the vocalist is singing in what my mother would have called a "Keening" voice which was typical of the way the vocalist would sing/lament at Irish funerals, long ago.
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Jane43 private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhead1966
Jeanroberts -

Yet, no outcry from the concerned parents about that, but a huge meltdown about falling asleep in the movies, LOL!


It’s just an illustration of a time when life was cheap, especially in Ireland. You can see it in any of Dickens’ novels too.
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RicardoAPriori private msg quote post Address this user
Thank you Roxy, I had noticed the very emotional quality of the "Lynched" version, in addition to the accent, but didn't know what it was called or that it was used at Irish funerals.
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Jane43 private msg quote post Address this user
Of course if the lovers were of diffferent faiths their families would have been vehemently opposed to the match.
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Jeanroberts private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxy
Ricardo, the Lynched version of Willow garden... the vocalist is singing in what my mother would have called a "Keening" voice which was typical of the way the vocalist would sing/lament at Irish funerals, long ago.


Of course Roxy, you're quite right! Keening is the discription of the singing by the lady in Lynched! It's ages since I've heard the like! Very authentic!

Jane43 Put up practical points too! If the courting couple were of opposite faiths, they'd be hell to pay, especial if the girl was pregnant! Plus, life being so cheep in those times, doing away with someone and hoping to cover their tracks was a risk worth taking! Ha Ha! It's a loaded song this Willow Gardens and not the only song of its type when we read the lyrics of 'Knoxville Girl' printed out by Jane43 too! That courting couple just must have had the girl 'in trouble'!
This has been an interesting topic! xxx
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Jane43 private msg quote post Address this user
Yes it has been really interesting to talk about these old songs. I wonder if future generations will have such conversations about the songs of today?
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EB84 private msg quote post Address this user
Re the accent.
I heard that this was a concern when the met in the Spring of '83. Phils accent had changed due to living in LA for that period and Don moving back to Nashville.

I lovw his twang in the video shot at his hotel when he talks about falling in the well and his accent really comes through.
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